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FYI Again	You aren't paying attention SD	#1	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2397 07/01/09 11:12 PM Registered User	This guy was ALREADY trying to stage a coup of his own. His "referendum" was in direct violation of their constitution and was against the direct (and legal) orders of both the legislative and judicial branches of their government. He was trying to jimmy their constitution in order to become El Presidente for life, just like his buddy Hugo Chavez. The situation was critical. Failure to act quickly would have resulted in a dictatorship - which thankfully they have now avoided by kicking the bum out. One other thing. Impeachment is the proper method in OUR government, as established by OUR constitution. I don't know the details of how it is supposed to work in THEIR government. Do you? Once again, I ask you to consider the hypothetical scenario I mentioned above - substitute the US for Honduras, George W. Bush for Zelaya, and 2007 for 2009. Sure, impeachment is the right way to go under normal circumstances in the US. But suppose the situation was NOT normal - suppose this hypothetical power hungry Bush had made it plain he intended to overthrow the constitution and set himself up as President for life, and suppose further (as happened in Honduras) that both the Legislative and Judicial branches of government were united in PREVENTING that disaster from happening. Would you still feel that the legal formalities of impeachment - which we all know from experience takes a LONG time and is by no means assured of success - was the right way to to prevent the constitution from being destroyed? Speaking for myself, if a president - ANY president, whether Bush or Obama or any other - did the things that Zelaya did in this country, I would FULLY support the military in giving the SOB a boot print on the arse and a one way ticket to anyplace else. When a "leader" is trying to game the system and give himself more power - as Zelaya was CLEARLY doing - there isn't time for niceties. Action must be taken to prevent catastrophe. The people of Honduras know this a lot better than we do - we've never lived under a military dictatorship, but they have. They know what it's like to have a repressive government, and that's WHY they have such severe term limits (Presidents are limited to a single, 4 year term) to begin with. I hope the military, the legislature, and the judiciary of Honduras stick to their plan and tell Obama and the other socialists calling for Zelaya's reinstatement to go pound sand. They'll be glad they did, and if they cave in and reinstate the SOB, they'll be sorry. Some Music More from FYI Again
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Southern David	Rule of Law	#2	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1680 07/02/09 2:54 AM	This expresses my opinion on the matter: "...Now the Honduran military has responded in kind: An illegal referendum has met an illegal military intervention, with the avowed intention of protecting the Constitution. Zelaya's civilian opponents, meanwhile, are celebrating. For the past week, the Honduran Congress has waxed lyrical about the armed forces as the guarantors of the Constitution, a disturbing notion for Latin Americans. At the very least, we are witnessing in Honduras the return of the unfortunate role of the military as the ultimate referee in political conflicts among civilian leaders, a huge step back in the region's consolidation of democracy." "That's why Zelaya, though he bears by far the greater responsibility for this crisis, must be reinstated in his position as the legitimate president of Honduras. The Organization of American States, the neighboring countries, and the U.S. government (which is still enormously influential in Honduras) should demand no less. They should also call upon all political actors in Honduras to take a deep breath and do what mature democracies do: allow the law to deal with those who try to step outside it. If Zelaya must be prosecuted for his harebrained attempt to subvert the Honduran Constitution, then let the courts proceed as rigorously as possible. And the same applies to the coup perpetrators. If Honduras is to have a decent future, its politicians and soldiers, in equal measure, must learn that the road to democracy and development runs through the rule of law..." Source As an American and a Democrat I'm for the Rule of Law. I can certainly understand why President Obama who taught Constitutional Law for years would have grave concerns over the matter. Obama understands and respects the Rule of Law. He is not into cowboy type justice. Our own country has had Constitutional meltdowns and power struggles throughout its history. None of them have resulted in the kidnapping of a President. IMO, the kidnapping a democratically elected President by the military is not a good precedent. Nor, should it be applauded by nations that respect the Rule of Law. Last Edited By: Southern David 07/02/09 3:14 AM. Edited 1 time.
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FYI Again	Partially agree	#3	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2398 07/02/09 9:22 AM Registered User	I tend to agree that "the kidnapping [of] a democratically elected President by the military is not a good precedent", but I do think that the situation called for it, regardless of whether it's a good precedent or not. History shows that demagogues like Zelaya who aren't satisfied with the limits placed upon their power will seek to increase their power by any means. The list of men who have done this is endless, and it includes names such as Hitler, Lenin, and Stalin. The normal, "legal" means (and of course "legal" is different from country to country) of removing a leader from power are usually time consuming and cumbersome - and often they don't work. In a crisis situation, where time is of the essence, responsible parties must sometimes take action - and precedent be #!+$@#. Consider the example of Hitler. He was legally and democratically elected. The German Weimar Republic at that time had a constitutional democracy in many ways similar to our own. Like our government there checks and balances, dividing power between executive, legislative and judicial branches. Hitler, as elected, had many constraints on his power - he couldn't simply rule by decree. And so over the first few years of his regime he set about changing things, using whatever means he felt were necessary. Within a very short period of time he became unassailable. But for a few short years, the Weimar Republic had it within its power to remove him. He could have been legally impeached if the legislature had had the will to do so. Ah, but Hitler had his own private army (the SA - aka "Brown Shirts") and using this he was able to intimidate anyone who stood against him (and some few brave souls did try - they all ended up either dead or imprisoned). The reality of the situation throughout the early to mid 1930's was that only the military had the means to remove him from office. Of course they chose not to do so - they were largely in agreement with his policy goals so they weren't about to do anything to slow him down. But IF the military had had the will to do so it could have. No other legal entity could have accomplished it, because Hitler had the means to suppress them if they dared to try (and they knew it). No doubt there are many differences between that scenario and the one in Honduras, but there are a good many similarities as well. The very fact that Zelaya was able to storm the place where the illegal referendum ballots were stored shows that he had resources similar to Hitler's brown shirts. He had been in power for over 3 years and had had time to gather resources necessary to ensure he remained in power. He had "muscle", and could raise an angry mob of supporters if needed. If the Honduran military had supported him - even passively by turning a blind eye to his illegal activities - neither the legislature or the judiciary would have had the power necessary to stop him. They could have passed resolutions in futility, but without the pure, physical power (in other words, FORCE) necessary to put down a man who was ALREADY acting in complete disregard of either the constitution or the rule of law. I really don't see that they had any choice. It was either give Zelaya the boot, or accept his inevitable dictatorship. I agree the rule of law is a good thing and must be respected and preserved. But sometimes it just doesn't work. In this situation, I think the Hondurans did exactly the right thing. It's not like we have some power mad general staging a coup and placing himself in the big chair. No, the head of the legislature took on the presidency temporarily, and the scheduled November elections are still going to be held. Some Music More from FYI Again
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Southern David	Every Story has two sides	#4	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1681 07/02/09 10:50 PM	Interesting read about the coup leaders that are stripping away rights of the citizens. "Despite the best efforts of what I call "the Oligarch Diaspora" to flood the Internet with near identical messages that the Honduran coup "is not a coup" and that was a "constitutional succession" (cough, cough) dressed in the blue-and-white flag of Honduran democracy, the coup regime bared its fangs today. And like any vampire, it's coming out at nightfall...." "...The coup defenders are afraid, they say, of Honduras becoming another another Cuba, or Venezuela, or Nicaragua, of losing their "freedoms" and their "democracy." But today, in one fell swoop their leaders erased those very freedoms, atop all the other ones they've already burned alive - freedom of the press, freedom to elect their own president, among them - and buried democracy with it..." Source
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FYI Again	Wolf!!! Run for your lives!!!	#5	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2400 07/03/09 1:30 PM Registered User	Yawn. Same old same old. For many decades now socialists (of every flavor) have always been quick to cry oppression whenever some government makes any kind of effort to defend itself against them. But of course, with socialists, the ends always justify any and all means - they can commit any crime and be able to count on their fellow travelers and other useful idiots to look the other way or to defend them if someone dares to call attention to their deeds. Sorry SD, but such people have been crying "WOLF" for so long I have long since stopped taking them seriously. I suppose every now and then there really is a wolf, but how can such people be believed when they've proven themselves over many decades to be the worst sort of liars and hypocrites. The language itself ought to give you some indication SD. Bared fangs like a vampire at nightfall? Freedom and democracy burned and buried alive? Give me a break. Anyone who feels it necessary to use such shrill, over the top language is only trying to disguise the fact that they don't have enough clues to reach a single valid conclusion. Some Music More from FYI Again
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Tweetybob		#6	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2369 07/03/09 2:25 PM	FYI, you gotta be wearing your "Freedom Blindfold" to not see that the wacko neocon pundits use "shrill, over the top language" in "trying to disguise the fact that they don't have enough clues to reach a single valid conclusion"! Did I mention that I'm glad Obama was elected and is doing a fine job?
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Southern David	Bye-bye Palin.	#7	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1682 07/03/09 10:50 PM	Funny, TB. Yelp, they are wearing blindfolds and earplugs, no input.! BTW, don't know if you have heard this? Palin's polls in Alaska have plummeted to an all time low and she knows there is no chance to win a second term as Governor. So, today she resigned from office. I really think what done her in was throwing her 14 y/o under the train. I think most sound minded people got tired of her using her kids as political props. Last Edited By: Southern David 07/03/09 11:06 PM. Edited 2 times.
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Tweetybob	Re: Bye-bye Palin.	#8	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2370 07/04/09 4:25 AM	Did she get pregnant again because she was running out of babies to throw under the bus? Anyway, thanks for the picture- now I know what her special-needs baby looks like. And hey, isn't that Pimplin's boss Satan in the background?
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Stingerski	Seems to me . . .	#9	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 8523 07/04/09 6:41 PM	. . . that you two guys would just love to get your dip stick wet with her . . .
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Southern David		#10	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1686 07/04/09 9:00 PM	Tweetybob wrote: Did she get pregnant again because she was running out of babies to throw under the bus? Anyway, thanks for the picture- now I know what her special-needs baby looks like. And hey, isn't that Pimplin's boss Satan in the background? I don't know if she is pregnant or not. I heard the main reason she pulled out was LensCrafters withdrew their endorsement from her.
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Southern David		#11	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1683 07/03/09 11:29 PM	FYI Again wrote: Yawn. Same old same old. For many decades now socialists (of every flavor) have always been quick to cry oppression whenever some government makes any kind of effort to defend itself against them. But of course, with socialists, the ends always justify any and all means - they can commit any crime and be able to count on their fellow travelers and other useful idiots to look the other way or to defend them if someone dares to call attention to their deeds. Sorry SD, but such people have been crying "WOLF" for so long I have long since stopped taking them seriously. I suppose every now and then there really is a wolf, but how can such people be believed when they've proven themselves over many decades to be the worst sort of liars and hypocrites. The language itself ought to give you some indication SD. Bared fangs like a vampire at nightfall? Freedom and democracy burned and buried alive? Give me a break. Anyone who feels it necessary to use such shrill, over the top language is only trying to disguise the fact that they don't have enough clues to reach a single valid conclusion. Oh, come on FYI. You used to have some logic to your posts. But trying to paint an old style military coup as a beacon for democracy is a little farfetched. I know the right is on the down and out without any talking points. Surely, you can come up with something that has more substance or believability. Last Edited By: Southern David 07/04/09 1:42 AM. Edited 1 time.
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FYI Again	Some lessons	#12	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2402 07/06/09 12:59 PM Registered User	Southern David wrote: Oh, come on FYI. You used to have some logic to your posts. But trying to paint an old style military coup as a beacon for democracy is a little farfetched. I know the right is on the down and out without any talking points. Surely, you can come up with something that has more substance or believability. Given your political views, I'm not at all surprised that you cannot recognize logic. Socialism is inherently illogical. Its most fundamental tenets - of necessity - deny human nature and thousands of years of history. It is an unbalanced, unnatural and essentially childish approach to government. It refuses to recognize its own obvious failures, and its practitioners are blinded to the fact that every single time it has been tried anywhere in the world it has failed miserably. It is directly responsible for the most horrible atrocities of the past century, yet its invincibly ignorant acolytes continue to view it as though it were the source of all goodness and light. Now, I'm trying to remember, where exactly did I ever call Honduras a "beacon for democracy"? AGAIN with the shrill, over the top language. Geez SD - even the Honduran government wouldn't make such a claim. Same thing with trying to paint their governemt as "an old style military coup". That is pure leftist propaganda with absolutely no "substance or believability". If this is what you mean by "talking points", then you and the other socialists can choke on them. History lesson: an "old style military coup" is when one or more military officers decide to overthrow the government and set themselves up as dictators at the point of a gun. Political correctness lesson: only non-socialists can stage an "old style military coup". When socialists do it, it's called a "revolution" or even better, a "people's uprising". Newsflash: the Honduran military did not act on its own. It took the action it was ORDERED to take by the legislative and judicial branches of the Honduran government. Their government tried to uphold the rule of law as much as was possible under the circumstances - those circumstances being that the executive branch had attempted to thwart the constitution and override the rule of law to its own benefit. The military did not set up a dictatorship under some clownish medal covered general. No, it left government in the hands of the civilians from whom it took its orders. Final lesson for the day: This is Shinola... This is NOT... Some Music More from FYI Again
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Southern David		#13	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1692 07/07/09 12:44 AM	It is quite obvious that you are not really wanting to engage in a serious conversation about the facts in Honduras. All you are doing is picking a couple of words out of my post then twisting and spinning them to some outlandish meaning. FYI, people have wised up to those right wing spin tactics. Most folks are into actual facts not hype and raw nerve politics. This is why the right has completely collapsed. It is just plain sad to watch a group of people totally implode. All you have to offer America these days is nothing but people like Palin and Limbaugh. Totally sad! Maybe one day you will be able to work your way out of the ultra right's brain drain like you did out of the COGs. I'm a positive thinker so, there is always hope for you man. Take it easy man.
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FYI Again	Spin vs. facts	#14	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2406 07/07/09 12:51 PM Registered User	Apparently you are under the misguided notion that "serious conversation" involves agreeing with you. I've been providing you with "the facts in Honduras" from the beginning of this thread, but you don't seem to be able to recognize them, let alone respond. I've already repeated them several times so clearly it would be useless to repeat them yet again. Some Music More from FYI Again
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Tweetybob	Clinton: Costa Rican to mediate Honduras crisis	#15	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2372 07/07/09 1:54 PM	Man, am I ever glad that Mr. Obama is President! By MATTHEW LEE - 8 minutes ago WASHINGTON (AP) - Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Tuesday that Costa Rican President Oscar Arias will serve as international mediator in the Honduran political crisis. Clinton made the announcement at the State Department after meeting privately with Honduran President Manuel Zelaya, who was forced into exile on June 28. She said Zelaya as well as the politician who took over as Honduran leader, Roberto Micheletti, agreed to the Arias role as mediator. She said Arias would work on the problem from Costa Rica, not in Honduras. Clinton noted that Arias won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1987 for helping broker an end to Central America's civil wars. She said she spoke to him earlier Tuesday. "He is the natural person to assume this role," she told reporters, adding that while the Obama administration continues to support the efforts of the Organization of American States to resolve the crisis, she felt it was necessary to also name a specific mediator. Clinton also called on all parties to refrain from further violence in an effort to resolve the political crisis. She said her meeting with Zelaya was productive. "I reiterated to him that the United States supports the restoration of the democratic, constitutional order in Honduras," she said. In Moscow, President Barack Obama said his administration's support for Zelaya, the deposed left-leaning politician who often criticized Washington, was emblematic of his administration's foreign policy. "America cannot and should not seek to impose any system of government on any other country, nor would we presume to choose which party or individual should run a country," Obama said in a speech in the Russian capital. "And we haven't always done what we should have on that front." "Even as we meet here today, America supports now the restoration of the democratically elected president of Honduras, even though he has strongly opposed American policies," he said. "We do so not because we agree with him," Obama said of Zelaya. "We do so because we respect the universal principle that people should choose their own leaders, whether they are leaders we agree with or not." The administration has offered only lukewarm support for Zelaya - aimed more at bolstering his legal status as Honduras' duly elected president than supporting him personally. Zelaya, a wealthy rancher who moved to the left after his election and allied himself with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was ousted on June 28 and sent into exile. He made an unsuccessful attempt to return home over the weekend and said Monday in Nicaragua that he hoped to win greater U.S. support for efforts to regain power. Zelaya is opposed by all branches of the Honduran government as well as the military, and has even alienated leaders of his own party, which supported the congressional vote to install Micheletti as interim president. But Zelaya has won backing from the Organization of American States, which suspended Honduras' membership on Saturday, and other foreign governments, including the U.S., which have threatened trade sanctions against the country. One option being considered to end the crisis is to try to forge a compromise between Zelaya, Micheletti and the Honduran military under which the ousted president would be allowed to serve out his remaining six months in office with limited powers, according to a senior U.S. official. Zelaya, in return, would pledge to drop his aspirations for a constitutional change that might allow him to run for another term, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the diplomatic exchanges. Micheletti has vowed not to negotiate until "things return to normal." The new government has threatened to arrest Zelaya for 18 alleged criminal acts, including treason and failing to implement more than 80 laws approved by Congress since he took office in 2006. Michelletti's interim Honduran government - named by Congress to replace Zelaya's administration after a fight over his effort to stage a constitutional referendum that the Supreme Court ruled illegal - has been steadfast in saying he would not be allowed to return. It extended the closure of the country's main airport through Friday and parked an old plane across the runway to emphasize the point. His supporters, meanwhile, said they would step up protests by taking their fight nationwide, including blocking major highways and border crossings to impede trucks delivering fuel and merchandise.
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FYI Again	Here are the basic facts	#16	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2407 07/07/09 3:02 PM Registered User	Rather then try to explain it yet again, here is a quote - not from Rush Limbaugh or any other "right winger", but from ABC News Senior White House Correspondent Jake Tapper: The military removal of Zelaya as president - and the appointment of Roberto Micheletti as interim President by the Honduran legislature - came after Zelaya attempted to rewrite his nation's constitution to end term limits to continue his rule, despite the fact that term limits in the constitution is one of eight "firm articles" that cannot be changed. After the Honduran Legislature refused to call a constitutional convention to rewrite the constitution, Zelaya called for a referendum to do so, which the Honduran Supreme Court and Attorney General declared unconstitutional. Zelaya, allied with leftist Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez , fired top military commander Romeo Vásquez Velásquez for refusing to carry out the referendum. Every branch of government sided against Zelaya and Congress began discussing impeachment proceedings. Acting on orders from the Honduran Supreme Court, soldiers arrested Zelaya on June 28 and sent him into exile in Costa Rica. Emphasis mine. Here's a link to the story from which I quoted, so you can see it in context if you don't believe me: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/07/in-russia-president-obama-explains-his-support-for-ousted-president-of-honduras.html There's more to it of course, but these are the basic facts of the situation. People tend to forget that Honduras has experienced dictatorship throughout its history. That's why they placed that strict single term limit as a "firm article" which "cannot be changed" in their constitution to begin with - to avoid the very thing that Zelaya tried to do. Zelaya's actions made it very clear he was willing to bypass the constitution and the rule of law in order to indefinitely extend his term - which is exactly what his mentor Hugo Chavez did in 2004. The reason he was exiled was that he defied every other branch of government in order to accomplish his lawless, unconstitutional, anti democratic goals. If Sec. of State Clinton is serious about her desire for "the restoration of the democratic, constitutional order in Honduras", then restoring a man who disregards that democratic, constitutional order to power is clearly NOT the way to accomplish it. Man am I ever glad that there are a few voices of reason willing to talk sense in spite of the fool in the White House. Some Music More from FYI Again
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Tweetybob	Facts..	#17	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2375 07/08/09 8:32 AM	Thanks for making the point that the mainstream press is 'anything but' leftist. A military putsch to oust a democratically elected leader does not seem to me to be following the rule of law. Their constitution was written when the fool President Reagan was actively overthrowing democratically elected Central American governments. BTW, I seem to have missed any military action in New York City against Mayor Bloomberg, when in order to run again, he decided to get rid of term limits. Here's an article about that. I just can't find any pictures of the tanks and troops rolling into NYC when that happened, though!
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FYI Again	Apples and Bowling Balls	#18	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2409 07/09/09 10:29 AM Registered User	Thanks for making the point that the mainstream press is 'anything but' leftist. I made no such point, and if that's what you read into it then your reading skills are deficient. The mainstream press is almost entirely leftist. There are a few exceptions, Fox News being perhaps the best known of them. But for the most part our press has been in the left's pocket for generations. That's not to say that some individual reporters don't still have some journalistic integrity - even a committed leftist can (if he allows himself to think critically) see the truth of a situation. It's just a question of whether he is honest enough (or brave enough) to report it accurately. I don't know much about Jake Tapper (the man I quoted above), but I'd be shocked if he was anything but a registered, loyal and enthusiastic Democrat given his position at ABC news. But apparently he has enough sense and enough journalistic integrity to report the basic fact I quoted accurately even though they are inconvenient to a President he very likely supported and still supports. A military putsch to oust a democratically elected leader does not seem to me to be following the rule of law. If the military had acted on its own initiative and placed one of its own generals in charge, I would agree with you. That truly WOULD be a putsch. But in this case, the military acted UNDER ORDERS from the Honduran congress and supreme court. They did not act on their own, nor did they place one of their own in charge. Their constitution was written when the fool President Reagan was actively overthrowing democratically elected Central American governments. I'm only aware of one, single government that Reagan overthrew, and that was Grenada. And if you are at all familiar with the historical facts of that situation (which I doubt) you would not complain that he had done so. The people of Granada were certainly glad and remain so to this day. Overthrowing governments is not something the US does on a regular basis. It doesn't happen that often. But then, leftists seem to have this paranoid idea that the CIA is hiding under every rock, so I'm not surprised at your ignorance. BTW, I seem to have missed any military action in New York City against Mayor Bloomberg, when in order to run again, he decided to get rid of term limits. Here's an article about that. I just can't find any pictures of the tanks and troops rolling into NYC when that happened, though! You aren't just talking apples and oranges here, you are talking apples and bowling balls. About the only similarity is that both are more or less round. Aside from the cultural differences (Northwest US vs. Central America), city governments have vastly less impact on society as a whole and operate on a completely different level than national governments. National governments for instance are generally not too concerned about trash pickup on 13th Street. City government laws are generally far easier to change than national government constitutions. And generally - at least in the US - on those rare occasions when troops move into a city it's usually in response to a disaster of some sort and the survivors are generally very glad to see them. Some Music More from FYI Again
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Southern David		#19	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1695 07/07/09 6:52 PM	TB said;> Man, am I ever glad that Mr. Obama is President! Me too! Hopefully democracy and the Rule of Law will be restored to Honduras.
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ForumJen		#20	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3838 07/07/09 3:46 PM	Southern David wrote: It is quite obvious that you are not really wanting to engage in a serious conversation about the facts in Honduras. All you are doing is picking a couple of words out of my post then twisting and spinning them to some outlandish meaning. FYI, people have wised up to those right wing spin tactics. Most folks are into actual facts not hype and raw nerve politics. This is why the right has completely collapsed. It is just plain sad to watch a group of people totally implode. All you have to offer America these days is nothing but people like Palin and Limbaugh. Totally sad! Maybe one day you will be able to work your way out of the ultra right's brain drain like you did out of the COGs. I'm a positive thinker so, there is always hope for you man. Take it easy man. RESPONSE Mike, wake up! The whole political mess is imploding, Democrats and Republicans. A society that loses it's moral compass is destined to implode. Everything isn't COG you know. Just because you didn't think then or now, doesn't mean others didn't and don't. Saturn Aurora - January 24, 2004 from the Hubble Our God is an awesome God!
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Southern David		#21	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1694 07/07/09 6:32 PM	ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: It is quite obvious that you are not really wanting to engage in a serious conversation about the facts in Honduras. All you are doing is picking a couple of words out of my post then twisting and spinning them to some outlandish meaning. FYI, people have wised up to those right wing spin tactics. Most folks are into actual facts not hype and raw nerve politics. This is why the right has completely collapsed. It is just plain sad to watch a group of people totally implode. All you have to offer America these days is nothing but people like Palin and Limbaugh. Totally sad! Maybe one day you will be able to work your way out of the ultra right's brain drain like you did out of the COGs. I'm a positive thinker so, there is always hope for you man. Take it easy man. RESPONSE Mike, wake up! The whole political mess is imploding, Democrats and Republicans. A society that loses it's moral compass is destined to implode. Everything isn't COG you know. Just because you didn't think then or now, doesn't mean others didn't and don't. I can see why you have the sky is falling mentality. You are still holding to the teachings of the COG. You haven't worked you way out of that yet.
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ForumJen		#22	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3843 07/08/09 11:47 AM	Southern David wrote: ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: It is quite obvious that you are not really wanting to engage in a serious conversation about the facts in Honduras. All you are doing is picking a couple of words out of my post then twisting and spinning them to some outlandish meaning. FYI, people have wised up to those right wing spin tactics. Most folks are into actual facts not hype and raw nerve politics. This is why the right has completely collapsed. It is just plain sad to watch a group of people totally implode. All you have to offer America these days is nothing but people like Palin and Limbaugh. Totally sad! Maybe one day you will be able to work your way out of the ultra right's brain drain like you did out of the COGs. I'm a positive thinker so, there is always hope for you man. Take it easy man. RESPONSE Mike, wake up! The whole political mess is imploding, Democrats and Republicans. A society that loses it's moral compass is destined to implode. Everything isn't COG you know. Just because you didn't think then or now, doesn't mean others didn't and don't. I can see why you have the sky is falling mentality. You are still holding to the teachings of the COG. You haven't worked you way out of that yet. RESPONSE Maybe it's because I've already experienced a bit of the sky is falling. We've just gone through six months of unemployment so I know that the economy being in a mess is a reality. I think the other 10% of unemployeed citizens may have a different point of view of your rosy senario. I hope I never work my way out of looking at reality Mike. Head in the sand does very little for anyone. It can make one continue on in la la land, but that's about all it will get you. Since you bring up working ones way out...it seems you haven't learned the lesson of not looking to a man...any man. The same mentality seems to still be there for you...sadly, you've just replaced a different person on the pedestal.
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Southern David		#23	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1698 07/08/09 8:45 PM	ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: It is quite obvious that you are not really wanting to engage in a serious conversation about the facts in Honduras. All you are doing is picking a couple of words out of my post then twisting and spinning them to some outlandish meaning. FYI, people have wised up to those right wing spin tactics. Most folks are into actual facts not hype and raw nerve politics. This is why the right has completely collapsed. It is just plain sad to watch a group of people totally implode. All you have to offer America these days is nothing but people like Palin and Limbaugh. Totally sad! Maybe one day you will be able to work your way out of the ultra right's brain drain like you did out of the COGs. I'm a positive thinker so, there is always hope for you man. Take it easy man. RESPONSE Mike, wake up! The whole political mess is imploding, Democrats and Republicans. A society that loses it's moral compass is destined to implode. Everything isn't COG you know. Just because you didn't think then or now, doesn't mean others didn't and don't. I can see why you have the sky is falling mentality. You are still holding to the teachings of the COG. You haven't worked you way out of that yet. RESPONSE Maybe it's because I've already experienced a bit of the sky is falling. We've just gone through six months of unemployment so I know that the economy being in a mess is a reality. I think the other 10% of unemployeed citizens may have a different point of view of your rosy senario. I hope I never work my way out of looking at reality Mike. Head in the sand does very little for anyone. It can make one continue on in la la land, but that's about all it will get you. Since you bring up working ones way out...it seems you haven't learned the lesson of not looking to a man...any man. The same mentality seems to still be there for you...sadly, you've just replaced a different person on the pedestal. I can certainly understand being unemployed. I was unemployed for a period in my life too. Remember the current crisis happened under a Republican administration. It is similar to what happened under Hoover but it took a Democratic administration to get the country back on track. If it hadn't been for FDR's work and aid programs, my family and many others would have starved to death. Thank God for people like FDR and Obama. Their heart is with the people not the ultra wealthy. I agree one must never lose touch with reality. Growing up we had seven years of religiously inflicted unemployment. To the point of living in an old chicken house with dirt floors and no utilities. Things like that help keep you head in reality. I am very picky these days about the teachings of a man or group of men, whether they are religious or political. Last Edited By: Southern David 07/08/09 10:19 PM. Edited 1 time.
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ForumJen	"religiously inflicted unemployment"?	#24	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3849 07/09/09 11:15 AM	Southern David wrote: ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: It is quite obvious that you are not really wanting to engage in a serious conversation about the facts in Honduras. All you are doing is picking a couple of words out of my post then twisting and spinning them to some outlandish meaning. FYI, people have wised up to those right wing spin tactics. Most folks are into actual facts not hype and raw nerve politics. This is why the right has completely collapsed. It is just plain sad to watch a group of people totally implode. All you have to offer America these days is nothing but people like Palin and Limbaugh. Totally sad! Maybe one day you will be able to work your way out of the ultra right's brain drain like you did out of the COGs. I'm a positive thinker so, there is always hope for you man. Take it easy man. RESPONSE Mike, wake up! The whole political mess is imploding, Democrats and Republicans. A society that loses it's moral compass is destined to implode. Everything isn't COG you know. Just because you didn't think then or now, doesn't mean others didn't and don't. I can see why you have the sky is falling mentality. You are still holding to the teachings of the COG. You haven't worked you way out of that yet. RESPONSE Maybe it's because I've already experienced a bit of the sky is falling. We've just gone through six months of unemployment so I know that the economy being in a mess is a reality. I think the other 10% of unemployeed citizens may have a different point of view of your rosy senario. I hope I never work my way out of looking at reality Mike. Head in the sand does very little for anyone. It can make one continue on in la la land, but that's about all it will get you. Since you bring up working ones way out...it seems you haven't learned the lesson of not looking to a man...any man. The same mentality seems to still be there for you...sadly, you've just replaced a different person on the pedestal. I can certainly understand being unemployed. I was unemployed for a period in my life too. Remember the current crisis happened under a Republican administration. It is similar to what happened under Hoover but it took a Democratic administration to get the country back on track. If it hadn't been for FDR's work and aid programs, my family and many others would have starved to death. Thank God for people like FDR and Obama. Their heart is with the people not the ultra wealthy. I agree one must never lose touch with reality. Growing up we had seven years of religiously inflicted unemployment. To the point of living in an old chicken house with dirt floors and no utilities. Things like that help keep you head in reality. I am very picky these days about the teachings of a man or group of men, whether they are religious or political. RESPONSE We've been unemployed before as well, but not because of a melt down in government. Curious, what do you mean by "religiously inflicted unemployment" for seven years? Hmmmm...picky? OK. Doesn't appear that way, but I'll take you at your word. The Helix Nebula Also referred to as the eye of God. This is an infrared image taken from NASA'sSpace Telescope. Nebula looks like a giant eye and is one of the few dead-star systems in which evidence for comet survivors can be found. The Helix Nebula is 650 light years away and was discovered by Ludwig Harding before 1824. Our God is an Awesome God!
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Southern David		#25	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1700 07/10/09 11:39 PM	ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: It is quite obvious that you are not really wanting to engage in a serious conversation about the facts in Honduras. All you are doing is picking a couple of words out of my post then twisting and spinning them to some outlandish meaning. FYI, people have wised up to those right wing spin tactics. Most folks are into actual facts not hype and raw nerve politics. This is why the right has completely collapsed. It is just plain sad to watch a group of people totally implode. All you have to offer America these days is nothing but people like Palin and Limbaugh. Totally sad! Maybe one day you will be able to work your way out of the ultra right's brain drain like you did out of the COGs. I'm a positive thinker so, there is always hope for you man. Take it easy man. RESPONSE Mike, wake up! The whole political mess is imploding, Democrats and Republicans. A society that loses it's moral compass is destined to implode. Everything isn't COG you know. Just because you didn't think then or now, doesn't mean others didn't and don't. I can see why you have the sky is falling mentality. You are still holding to the teachings of the COG. You haven't worked you way out of that yet. RESPONSE Maybe it's because I've already experienced a bit of the sky is falling. We've just gone through six months of unemployment so I know that the economy being in a mess is a reality. I think the other 10% of unemployeed citizens may have a different point of view of your rosy senario. I hope I never work my way out of looking at reality Mike. Head in the sand does very little for anyone. It can make one continue on in la la land, but that's about all it will get you. Since you bring up working ones way out...it seems you haven't learned the lesson of not looking to a man...any man. The same mentality seems to still be there for you...sadly, you've just replaced a different person on the pedestal. I can certainly understand being unemployed. I was unemployed for a period in my life too. Remember the current crisis happened under a Republican administration. It is similar to what happened under Hoover but it took a Democratic administration to get the country back on track. If it hadn't been for FDR's work and aid programs, my family and many others would have starved to death. Thank God for people like FDR and Obama. Their heart is with the people not the ultra wealthy. I agree one must never lose touch with reality. Growing up we had seven years of religiously inflicted unemployment. To the point of living in an old chicken house with dirt floors and no utilities. Things like that help keep you head in reality. I am very picky these days about the teachings of a man or group of men, whether they are religious or political. RESPONSE We've been unemployed before as well, but not because of a melt down in government. Curious, what do you mean by "religiously inflicted unemployment" for seven years? Hmmmm...picky? OK. Doesn't appear that way, but I'll take you at your word. It was hard to keep any type of steady income flowing in when you're not available for work two weeks in the spring, one week in the summer, two weeks in the fall and no Saturday work either. Not to mention there were many jobs ruled off limits to church members. There were many church members in the same boat, poor and unemployed. After Armstrong made some "administrative" rulings about the feasts my dad found a very good job, one that he kept for the rest of his life.
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ForumJen		#26	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3870 07/11/09 7:07 AM	Southern David wrote: It was hard to keep any type of steady income flowing in when you're not available for work two weeks in the spring, one week in the summer, two weeks in the fall and no Saturday work either. Not to mention there were many jobs ruled off limits to church members. There were many church members in the same boat, poor and unemployed. After Armstrong made some "administrative" rulings about the feasts my dad found a very good job, one that he kept for the rest of his life. RESPONSE OK, I forgot y'all were in there back in the early 50's? Two weeks in spring and one week in the summer? I think I do recall hearing there was a DUB pretty much like the FOT, but that would have just been a week. Don't think I ever recall there being a week in the summer. What was that for? Pentecost? It was obviously very different by the 70's. Must have been tough getting out of school for all that as well, although I do recall spring break in school sometimes being around that time when I was really young, so maybe it wasn't that hard then to get out. Think the two week spring break was so kids could help with the planting on the farm. The Helix Nebula Also referred to as the eye of God. This is an infrared image taken from NASA'sSpace Telescope. Nebula looks like a giant eye and is one of the few dead-star systems in which evidence for comet survivors can be found. The Helix Nebula is 650 light years away and was discovered by Ludwig Harding before 1824. Our God is an Awesome God!
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Southern David		#27	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1703 07/11/09 10:43 PM	ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: It was hard to keep any type of steady income flowing in when you're not available for work two weeks in the spring, one week in the summer, two weeks in the fall and no Saturday work either. Not to mention there were many jobs ruled off limits to church members. There were many church members in the same boat, poor and unemployed. After Armstrong made some "administrative" rulings about the feasts my dad found a very good job, one that he kept for the rest of his life. RESPONSE OK, I forgot y'all were in there back in the early 50's? Two weeks in spring and one week in the summer? I think I do recall hearing there was a DUB pretty much like the FOT, but that would have just been a week. Don't think I ever recall there being a week in the summer. What was that for? Pentecost? It was obviously very different by the 70's. Must have been tough getting out of school for all that as well, although I do recall spring break in school sometimes being around that time when I was really young, so maybe it wasn't that hard then to get out. Think the two week spring break was so kids could help with the planting on the farm. DUB was eight days plus travel time to and from. Depending on how you broke up the travel time it could end up being 10-12 days. They kept Pentecost on Monday a 3 day fest, the first evening service started on Friday night. You had to figure in a couple of days travel time too. Your right, DUB sometimes lined up with spring break this helped for school but not for work. I believe they changed how the feasts were observed in 1967, including the way the NTBMO was kept.
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Stan Gardner		#28	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 712 07/11/09 11:52 PM	SD, Those differences sound very substantial to me, considering not much has been said or written about the difference in number of days kept back then, and the resultant effect on families. Since the WCG was so much smaller in number in the 1950s, perhaps fewer people were around to keep the groups' memory alive of exactly how things were done in the dark ages. Stan
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ForumJen		#29	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3882 07/12/09 12:07 AM	Stan Gardner wrote: SD, Those differences sound very substantial to me, considering not much has been said or written about the difference in number of days kept back then, and the resultant effect on families. Since the WCG was so much smaller in number in the 1950s, perhaps fewer people were around to keep the groups' memory alive of exactly how things were done in the dark ages. Stan RESPONSE Some things I have heard from old timers was how much the people wanted to get together when they could because there were so few members and they didn't get to fellowship locally as much back then. I could believe that. Seen from Apollo. This picture shows Africa, Antarctica, and the Arabian Peninsula. It was taken on the way to the moon by Apollo 17th on December 7, 1972. Our God is an Awesome God!
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Southern David		#30	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1706 07/12/09 1:11 AM	Stan Gardner wrote: SD, Those differences sound very substantial to me, considering not much has been said or written about the difference in number of days kept back then, and the resultant effect on families. Since the WCG was so much smaller in number in the 1950s, perhaps fewer people were around to keep the groups' memory alive of exactly how things were done in the dark ages. Stan Stan, I posted this link before on another board. It is a good flashback too read. Days of Zeal Gone
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Stingerski	Cowboy Legislation	#31	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 8520 07/03/09 2:51 PM	Obama understands and respects the Rule of Law. He is not into cowboy type justice. No, just cowboy legislation. Nothing he has proposed or signed passes the test of rule of law, according to our own Constitution. Every single thing he has done since becoming President is illegal. Just like what his bud there in Honduras was trying to do. Of course, people like Juan Peron Obama have had good tutors, going all the way back to the F.D.R. administration, which did a very good job of subverting our Constitution. And we are to this day still paying the price with bigger & bigger govt., and the massive problems only their socialism can create. Some Americans are paying attention here, like F.Y.I. But far too many are more concerned about who will win on "Dancing With The Stars" than they are for their own liberty. Too bad we can't cut them out of the social contract and ship those folks offshore (as fast as the Demoncrats are shipping in illegal aliens). And may the gods help us all if this "Cap & Tax" industry destroying scheme ever gets passed. The Green Weenies will have us all living in mud huts by the time they are done with our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
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ForumJen	Shows what we really need is a "cowboy"	#32	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3822 07/03/09 8:59 PM	Stingerski wrote: Obama understands and respects the Rule of Law. He is not into cowboy type justice. No, just cowboy legislation. Nothing he has proposed or signed passes the test of rule of law, according to our own Constitution. Every single thing he has done since becoming President is illegal. Just like what his bud there in Honduras was trying to do. Of course, people like Juan Peron Obama have had good tutors, going all the way back to the F.D.R. administration, which did a very good job of subverting our Constitution. And we are to this day still paying the price with bigger & bigger govt., and the massive problems only their socialism can create. Some Americans are paying attention here, like F.Y.I. But far too many are more concerned about who will win on "Dancing With The Stars" than they are for their own liberty. Too bad we can't cut them out of the social contract and ship those folks offshore (as fast as the Demoncrats are shipping in illegal aliens). And may the gods help us all if this "Cap & Tax" industry destroying scheme ever gets passed. The Green Weenies will have us all living in mud huts by the time they are done with our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. RESPONSE We never had N Korea pointing missiles toward Hawaii when we had a "cowboy" for President. Sweet talk from Obama isn't gonna cut it. All this shows is how incredibly naive Obama has been about foreign policy. Let's see how many gray hairs this guy has when his term ends...hopefully with just one term. The Helix Nebula Also referred to as the eye of God. This is an infrared image taken from NASA'sSpace Telescope. Nebula looks like a giant eye and is one of the few dead-star systems in which evidence for comet survivors can be found. The Helix Nebula is 650 light years away and was discovered by Ludwig Harding before 1824. Our God is an Awesome God!
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Southern David		#33	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1685 07/04/09 12:45 AM	ForumJen wrote: Stingerski wrote: Obama understands and respects the Rule of Law. He is not into cowboy type justice. No, just cowboy legislation. Nothing he has proposed or signed passes the test of rule of law, according to our own Constitution. Every single thing he has done since becoming President is illegal. Just like what his bud there in Honduras was trying to do. Of course, people like Juan Peron Obama have had good tutors, going all the way back to the F.D.R. administration, which did a very good job of subverting our Constitution. And we are to this day still paying the price with bigger & bigger govt., and the massive problems only their socialism can create. Some Americans are paying attention here, like F.Y.I. But far too many are more concerned about who will win on "Dancing With The Stars" than they are for their own liberty. Too bad we can't cut them out of the social contract and ship those folks offshore (as fast as the Demoncrats are shipping in illegal aliens). And may the gods help us all if this "Cap & Tax" industry destroying scheme ever gets passed. The Green Weenies will have us all living in mud huts by the time they are done with our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. RESPONSE We never had N Korea pointing missiles toward Hawaii when we had a "cowboy" for President. Sweet talk from Obama isn't gonna cut it. All this shows is how incredibly naive Obama has been about foreign policy. Let's see how many gray hairs this guy has when his term ends...hopefully with just one term. Yelp, I think it was the Bush Administration that bent over backwards to make sure N. Korea received it frozen funds. It was the Bush Administration that enabled the N. Koreans to build their longer range missiles.
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ForumJen		#34	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3825 07/04/09 3:36 PM	Southern David wrote: ForumJen wrote: Stingerski wrote: Obama understands and respects the Rule of Law. He is not into cowboy type justice. No, just cowboy legislation. Nothing he has proposed or signed passes the test of rule of law, according to our own Constitution. Every single thing he has done since becoming President is illegal. Just like what his bud there in Honduras was trying to do. Of course, people like Juan Peron Obama have had good tutors, going all the way back to the F.D.R. administration, which did a very good job of subverting our Constitution. And we are to this day still paying the price with bigger & bigger govt., and the massive problems only their socialism can create. Some Americans are paying attention here, like F.Y.I. But far too many are more concerned about who will win on "Dancing With The Stars" than they are for their own liberty. Too bad we can't cut them out of the social contract and ship those folks offshore (as fast as the Demoncrats are shipping in illegal aliens). And may the gods help us all if this "Cap & Tax" industry destroying scheme ever gets passed. The Green Weenies will have us all living in mud huts by the time they are done with our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. RESPONSE We never had N Korea pointing missiles toward Hawaii when we had a "cowboy" for President. Sweet talk from Obama isn't gonna cut it. All this shows is how incredibly naive Obama has been about foreign policy. Let's see how many gray hairs this guy has when his term ends...hopefully with just one term. Yelp, I think it was the Bush Administration that bent over backwards to make sure N. Korea received it frozen funds. It was the Bush Administration that enabled the N. Koreans to build their longer range missiles. RESPONSE Well which one is it? We had an out of control cowboy who made all other nations dislike America and was responsible for everything including your tooth ache or one who enabled our enemies to build missiles??? Eventually Obama lovers are going to have to accept that Obama owns his own missteps and his own lack of experience in dealing with domestic and foreign matters. He was incredible naive to think he was going to sit down and have tea with many of these folks. Most of Bush's foreign enemies don't like Obama any better than they liked Bush and it certainly isn't because Obama comes across as some strong cowboy. They don't like what America stands for...period. Saturn Aurora - January 24, 2004 from the Hubble Our God is an awesome God!
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Southern David		#35	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1688 07/04/09 9:09 PM	Jenny wrote:> We had an out of control cowboy who made all other nations dislike America and was responsible for everything including your tooth ache or one who enabled our enemies to build missiles??? That is pretty much on the money minus the toothache.
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ForumJen		#36	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3827 07/04/09 9:51 PM	Southern David wrote: Jenny wrote:> We had an out of control cowboy who made all other nations dislike America and was responsible for everything including your tooth ache or one who enabled our enemies to build missiles??? That is pretty much on the money minus the toothache. RESPONSE Well they don't like Obama any better and he's not even showing he has any backbone. He's too busy raising our taxes and making us a socialist nation. The Helix Nebula Also referred to as the eye of God. This is an infrared image taken from NASA'sSpace Telescope. Nebula looks like a giant eye and is one of the few dead-star systems in which evidence for comet survivors can be found. The Helix Nebula is 650 light years away and was discovered by Ludwig Harding before 1824. Our God is an Awesome God!
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Southern David		#37	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1690 07/04/09 10:14 PM	ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: Jenny wrote:> We had an out of control cowboy who made all other nations dislike America and was responsible for everything including your tooth ache or one who enabled our enemies to build missiles??? That is pretty much on the money minus the toothache. RESPONSE Well they don't like Obama any better and he's not even showing he has any backbone. He's too busy raising our taxes and making us a socialist nation. N Korea doesn't like anyone. Not a huge surprise there.
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ForumJen	Good grief!	#38	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3832 07/06/09 4:14 PM	Southern David wrote: ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: Jenny wrote:> We had an out of control cowboy who made all other nations dislike America and was responsible for everything including your tooth ache or one who enabled our enemies to build missiles??? That is pretty much on the money minus the toothache. RESPONSE Well they don't like Obama any better and he's not even showing he has any backbone. He's too busy raising our taxes and making us a socialist nation. N Korea doesn't like anyone. Not a huge surprise there. RESPONSE Really? Weak answer, Mike. Obama thought it was just a matter of sitting down and having a talk with all these misunderstood people. Afterall, they are just misunderstood and America has just been bad neighbors. Good grief, Mike! So if Obama isn't liked it's because they don't like anyone, but if Bush wasn't liked, it's because he's a cowboy who should be appologized for by Obama who isn't liked? Drinking a lot of the coolaid I see. Saturn Aurora - January 24, 2004 from the Hubble Our God is an awesome God!
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Tweetybob		#39	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2371 07/06/09 7:35 PM	"Obama thought it was just a matter of sitting down and having a talk with all these misunderstood people." Good grief! You can't possibly really believe that, could you? Sounds like you've been hittin' the koolaid pretty hard! Aw, I know. You're just sore because your secessionist Caribou Barbie nutcase didn't win. Hey, did you catch her speech in which she said the world needs more retarded people? I guess she realizes that would be the only way she could get the respect she thinks she deserves. You betcha! [wink]
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Southern David		#40	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1693 07/07/09 1:59 AM	ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: Jenny wrote:> We had an out of control cowboy who made all other nations dislike America and was responsible for everything including your tooth ache or one who enabled our enemies to build missiles??? That is pretty much on the money minus the toothache. RESPONSE Well they don't like Obama any better and he's not even showing he has any backbone. He's too busy raising our taxes and making us a socialist nation. N Korea doesn't like anyone. Not a huge surprise there. RESPONSE Really? Weak answer, Mike. Obama thought it was just a matter of sitting down and having a talk with all these misunderstood people. Afterall, they are just misunderstood and America has just been bad neighbors. Good grief, Mike! So if Obama isn't liked it's because they don't like anyone, but if Bush wasn't liked, it's because he's a cowboy who should be appologized for by Obama who isn't liked? Drinking a lot of the coolaid I see. Obama said he would leave the door open for talks. Even during our darkest period of time during the cold war we talked with the Soviet Union. If Obama leaves the door cracked for talks it's very cool. Obama is showing a great level of maturity and statesmanship.
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ForumJen		#41	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3841 07/07/09 8:22 PM	Southern David wrote: ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: ForumJen wrote: Southern David wrote: Jenny wrote:> We had an out of control cowboy who made all other nations dislike America and was responsible for everything including your tooth ache or one who enabled our enemies to build missiles??? That is pretty much on the money minus the toothache. RESPONSE Well they don't like Obama any better and he's not even showing he has any backbone. He's too busy raising our taxes and making us a socialist nation. N Korea doesn't like anyone. Not a huge surprise there. RESPONSE Really? Weak answer, Mike. Obama thought it was just a matter of sitting down and having a talk with all these misunderstood people. Afterall, they are just misunderstood and America has just been bad neighbors. Good grief, Mike! So if Obama isn't liked it's because they don't like anyone, but if Bush wasn't liked, it's because he's a cowboy who should be appologized for by Obama who isn't liked? Drinking a lot of the coolaid I see. Obama said he would leave the door open for talks. Even during our darkest period of time during the cold war we talked with the Soviet Union. If Obama leaves the door cracked for talks it's very cool. Obama is showing a great level of maturity and statesmanship. RESPONSE Actually what he is showing is a lack of experience. He truly looked over his head this trip. It's a long ways from being a local community organizer to being a Russia organizer. Saturn Aurora - January 24, 2004 from the Hubble Our God is an awesome God!
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Stingerski	One Term President	#42	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 8524 07/04/09 7:05 PM	The hubris of this Kenyan born African Socialist, now our President, leads me to believe that the capitalist game is over. We are going into 3rd world status, as planned, (with the apparatchicks like his family living very well). Cap & Trade, New World Order, call it what you want. It has been pre-ordained by them, the new Red Diaper Babies. David Horowitz (himself a former Red Diaper Baby) wrote an entire book about this titled: Radical Son. But most of you people are too stupid to even read such. You are too concerned about Dancing With The Stars, or Jacko's funeral. I can also tell you that the greatest transfer of wealth is about to begin from the United States of America to other countries, in this quest for social "equality." Which means, we will all soon enjoy living in our mud huts, with low carbon foot prints, and everybody not having enuf of anything. "Capitalism is a system where people share unequally in the benefits. Socialism is a system where people share equally in the misery." Atlas Shrugged.
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Southern David		#43	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1687 07/04/09 9:05 PM	Stingerski wrote: The hubris of this Kenyan born African Socialist, now our President, leads me to believe that the capitalist game is over. We are going into 3rd world status, as planned, (with the apparatchicks like his family living very well). Cap & Trade, New World Order, call it what you want. It has been pre-ordained by them, the new Red Diaper Babies. David Horowitz (himself a former Red Diaper Baby) wrote an entire book about this titled: Radical Son. But most of you people are too stupid to even read such. You are too concerned about Dancing With The Stars, or Jacko's funeral. I can also tell you that the greatest transfer of wealth is about to begin from the United States of America to other countries, in this quest for social "equality." Which means, we will all soon enjoy living in our mud huts, with low carbon foot prints, and everybody not having enuf of anything. "Capitalism is a system where people share unequally in the benefits. Socialism is a system where people share equally in the misery." Atlas Shrugged. I've never watched Dancing With The Stars. I like America's Got Talent.
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ForumJen		#44	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3828 07/04/09 9:55 PM	Stingerski wrote: The hubris of this Kenyan born African Socialist, now our President, leads me to believe that the capitalist game is over. We are going into 3rd world status, as planned, (with the apparatchicks like his family living very well). Cap & Trade, New World Order, call it what you want. It has been pre-ordained by them, the new Red Diaper Babies. David Horowitz (himself a former Red Diaper Baby) wrote an entire book about this titled: Radical Son. But most of you people are too stupid to even read such. You are too concerned about Dancing With The Stars, or Jacko's funeral. I can also tell you that the greatest transfer of wealth is about to begin from the United States of America to other countries, in this quest for social "equality." Which means, we will all soon enjoy living in our mud huts, with low carbon foot prints, and everybody not having enuf of anything. "Capitalism is a system where people share unequally in the benefits. Socialism is a system where people share equally in the misery." Atlas Shrugged. RESPONSE Well, there is hope. Even Helen Thomas is turning on Obama these days. When the love you media starts taking them down which is starting to happen a bit, they could be in trouble. Saturn Aurora - January 24, 2004 from the Hubble Our God is an awesome God!
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Southern David	Helen Thomas	#45	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1691 07/05/09 12:04 AM	ForumJen wrote: Stingerski wrote: The hubris of this Kenyan born African Socialist, now our President, leads me to believe that the capitalist game is over. We are going into 3rd world status, as planned, (with the apparatchicks like his family living very well). Cap & Trade, New World Order, call it what you want. It has been pre-ordained by them, the new Red Diaper Babies. David Horowitz (himself a former Red Diaper Baby) wrote an entire book about this titled: Radical Son. But most of you people are too stupid to even read such. You are too concerned about Dancing With The Stars, or Jacko's funeral. I can also tell you that the greatest transfer of wealth is about to begin from the United States of America to other countries, in this quest for social "equality." Which means, we will all soon enjoy living in our mud huts, with low carbon foot prints, and everybody not having enuf of anything. "Capitalism is a system where people share unequally in the benefits. Socialism is a system where people share equally in the misery." Atlas Shrugged. RESPONSE Well, there is hope. Even Helen Thomas is turning on Obama these days. When the love you media starts taking them down which is starting to happen a bit, they could be in trouble. MO, she seems to pride herself in being the rudest and most disruptive reporter in the room. It doesn't matter which administration is in power. I think she is a zombie in a twilight state between the living and dead.
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ForumJen		#46	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3844 07/08/09 11:51 AM	Mike said: MO, she seems to pride herself in being the rudest and most disruptive reporter in the room. It doesn't matter which administration is in power. I think she is a zombie in a twilight state between the living and dead. RESPONSE Did you think that when she acted like Obama was the greated person on the planet? Actually, I thought it was one of the most rational things she has said in a while. Maybe she woke up from her as you call it "zombie twilight state". I guess that means there is hope for others as well. Saturn Aurora - January 24, 2004 from the Hubble Our God is an awesome God!
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Southern David		#47	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1704 07/11/09 11:23 PM	ForumJen wrote: Mike said: MO, she seems to pride herself in being the rudest and most disruptive reporter in the room. It doesn't matter which administration is in power. I think she is a zombie in a twilight state between the living and dead. RESPONSE Did you think that when she acted like Obama was the greated person on the planet? Actually, I thought it was one of the most rational things she has said in a while. Maybe she woke up from her as you call it "zombie twilight state". I guess that means there is hope for others as well. Helen's seems to be a good little zombie for a time to any new administration. Then she turns into rabid Helen the zombie queen.
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ForumJen	Rule of "law". What's that?	#48	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3823 07/03/09 9:02 PM	Southern David wrote: This expresses my opinion on the matter: "...Now the Honduran military has responded in kind: An illegal referendum has met an illegal military intervention, with the avowed intention of protecting the Constitution. Zelaya's civilian opponents, meanwhile, are celebrating. For the past week, the Honduran Congress has waxed lyrical about the armed forces as the guarantors of the Constitution, a disturbing notion for Latin Americans. At the very least, we are witnessing in Honduras the return of the unfortunate role of the military as the ultimate referee in political conflicts among civilian leaders, a huge step back in the region's consolidation of democracy." "That's why Zelaya, though he bears by far the greater responsibility for this crisis, must be reinstated in his position as the legitimate president of Honduras. The Organization of American States, the neighboring countries, and the U.S. government (which is still enormously influential in Honduras) should demand no less. They should also call upon all political actors in Honduras to take a deep breath and do what mature democracies do: allow the law to deal with those who try to step outside it. If Zelaya must be prosecuted for his harebrained attempt to subvert the Honduran Constitution, then let the courts proceed as rigorously as possible. And the same applies to the coup perpetrators. If Honduras is to have a decent future, its politicians and soldiers, in equal measure, must learn that the road to democracy and development runs through the rule of law..." Source As an American and a Democrat I'm for the Rule of Law. I can certainly understand why President Obama who taught Constitutional Law for years would have grave concerns over the matter. Obama understands and respects the Rule of Law. He is not into cowboy type justice. Our own country has had Constitutional meltdowns and power struggles throughout its history. None of them have resulted in the kidnapping of a President. IMO, the kidnapping a democratically elected President by the military is not a good precedent. Nor, should it be applauded by nations that respect the Rule of Law. RESPONSE Rule of law? What's that? Sounds too much like do's and don'ts. Why should Obama have them if self professed NC no law people don't have them? Get a grip. He'll just love them into proper behavior since they are so reasonable. Saturn Aurora - January 24, 2004 from the Hubble Our God is an awesome God!
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Southern David	NT	#49	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1684 07/04/09 12:40 AM	NT Last Edited By: Southern David 07/04/09 12:45 AM. Edited 1 time.
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ForumJen		#50	[url]	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3824 07/04/09 3:29 PM	Southern David wrote: NT Cat got your tongue?
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Replies

Our government reveals its true colors	07/01/09 4:15 PM	FYI Again
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/01/09 9:25 PM	ShirleyS9
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/01/09 10:14 PM	Southern David
You aren't paying attention SD	07/01/09 11:12 PM	FYI Again
Rule of Law	07/02/09 2:54 AM	Southern David
Partially agree	07/02/09 9:22 AM	FYI Again
Every Story has two sides	07/02/09 10:50 PM	Southern David
Wolf!!! Run for your lives!!!	07/03/09 1:30 PM	FYI Again
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/03/09 2:25 PM	Tweetybob
Bye-bye Palin.	07/03/09 10:50 PM	Southern David
Re: Bye-bye Palin.	07/04/09 4:25 AM	Tweetybob
Seems to me . . .	07/04/09 6:41 PM	Stingerski
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/04/09 9:00 PM	Southern David
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/03/09 11:29 PM	Southern David
Some lessons	07/06/09 12:59 PM	FYI Again
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/07/09 12:44 AM	Southern David
Spin vs. facts	07/07/09 12:51 PM	FYI Again
Clinton: Costa Rican to mediate Honduras crisis	07/07/09 1:54 PM	Tweetybob
Here are the basic facts	07/07/09 3:02 PM	FYI Again
Facts..	07/08/09 8:32 AM	Tweetybob
Apples and Bowling Balls	07/09/09 10:29 AM	FYI Again
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/07/09 6:52 PM	Southern David
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/07/09 3:46 PM	ForumJen
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/07/09 6:32 PM	Southern David
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/08/09 11:47 AM	ForumJen
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/08/09 8:45 PM	Southern David
"religiously inflicted unemployment"?	07/09/09 11:15 AM	ForumJen
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/10/09 11:39 PM	Southern David
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/11/09 7:07 AM	ForumJen
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/11/09 10:43 PM	Southern David
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/11/09 11:52 PM	Stan Gardner
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/12/09 12:07 AM	ForumJen
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/12/09 1:11 AM	Southern David
Cowboy Legislation	07/03/09 2:51 PM	Stingerski
Shows what we really need is a "cowboy"	07/03/09 8:59 PM	ForumJen
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/04/09 12:45 AM	Southern David
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/04/09 3:36 PM	ForumJen
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/04/09 9:09 PM	Southern David
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/04/09 9:51 PM	ForumJen
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/04/09 10:14 PM	Southern David
Good grief!	07/06/09 4:14 PM	ForumJen
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/06/09 7:35 PM	Tweetybob
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/07/09 1:59 AM	Southern David
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/07/09 8:22 PM	ForumJen
One Term President	07/04/09 7:05 PM	Stingerski
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/04/09 9:05 PM	Southern David
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/04/09 9:55 PM	ForumJen
Helen Thomas	07/05/09 12:04 AM	Southern David
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/08/09 11:51 AM	ForumJen
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/11/09 11:23 PM	Southern David
Rule of "law". What's that?	07/03/09 9:02 PM	ForumJen
NT	07/04/09 12:40 AM	Southern David
Re: Our government reveals its true colors	07/04/09 3:29 PM	ForumJen